Ep 34. Breaking Free from the Sleep Med Struggle w/ Aly Hansen

Whether you're taking sleep meds or not, this episode is a MUST listen.

My friend and fellow sleep coach Aly Hansen gives us a raw and unfiltered look at her sleep med struggle and shares the final piece of the puzzle that set her free.

If you have a love/hate relationship with sleep meds… 

If you feel a pang of guilt every time you take them...

If you’re scared you'll be stuck on them forever…

This episode is for you. 

Listen and learn:

•  How Aly figured out her hidden fears
  
  
•  What helped her know she was going to be okay
  
  
•  Why meds don’t have to be the enemy of recovery
  
  
•  Why it’s not the med, but how you view them that matters

Join us for this heartfelt interview where Aly opens up about her battle with insomnia and her courageous climb out. 

We hope you enjoy listening to it as much as we enjoyed creating it!

Mentioned Resources:

Find Aly on her website or follow her on Instagram.
Related Episode: Sleep Meds and Inner Conflict

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Work with Beth:
👉 Learn About the Mind. Body. Sleep. Mentorship
👉 Start the Free Insomnia Course

Full Transcript Below

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Beth (00:00):

Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I am so excited to be joined by my friend and fellow sleep coach Allie Hanson today. Welcome, Allie.

Aly (00:23):

Oh, thank you, Beth. I am so excited to be here with you. We've been trying to do this for some time and [00:00:30] I just feel so honored to be able to spend this time with you today. Thank you for having me.

Beth (00:35):

Of course. Thank you for being here. And I was like, we were talking right before the episode. I was like, oh, we got to hit record real quick because I think everyone listening is going to get so much out of hearing your insights. And just to give the listeners an idea of how this podcast came to be, Aly and I know each other through a community of sleep coaches, and we often keep in touch and say hi and just check in, which I thoroughly [00:01:00] enjoy. And about a month ago you reached out, Aly, and you shared this great insight on sleep meds during insomnia. And I know this has been a part of your journey as it was mine. So of course we were like, well, we have to do a show and talk about this because it's a topic that not many people talk about candidly.

(01:23):

And there's so many emotions and beliefs and narratives that come with this aspect [00:01:30] of the experience. So my goal today is mostly to just soak up the wisdom of Allie's experience because I've been pretty open about my own struggles with meds. You can go back to episode 21 if you want to learn about that. And I just want to say before I forget that nothing that we say here is medical advice. We're just sharing our personal experience and we both come from a medication neutral standpoint in terms of insomnia, recovery, meaning you can recover from insomnia, whether you're on meds or not on meds. [00:02:00] So Aly, Aly, Aly. Why don't we open, if you don't mind just telling us a bit about your story and how the path of insomnia took shape for you.

Aly (02:13):

Yeah, absolutely. So it's pretty similar to so many stories out there. We always say that individuals are unique, but our experience with insomnia is not, and that is just very true with my experiences as well. [00:02:30] It was after kind of a stressful life event and I just had a night where I couldn't sleep and I didn't really think much of it. I was actually traveling. And so sometimes that's just the case when I'm traveling. So I got back home, things reregulated a bit. I had another trip and same thing happened. I didn't sleep and I'm talking allnighters, which had never happened to me before. And so [00:03:00] it freaked me out and I got home from that trip and things just weren't actually getting better this time. And so I went down all the rabbit holes that we go down. And I started with more of an alternative approach because of my background that is just sort of where I lean and being a yoga teacher and a massage therapist, that's just [00:03:30] kind of where I go first. And so I did all that, but it wasn't helping. And so I eventually ended up in my doctor's office and the meds and all the stuff from there.

(03:46):

So then fast forward, oh gosh, I guess it was almost a year that I was on sleep meds and had gotten, it was improving, [00:04:00] but I still hadn't dealt of course with the fear. And so the sleep med did eventually stop working as that fear resurfaced. And then I was really scared because then you feel like, oh my gosh, something's really wrong with me. And so that's when I did find Daniel and the sleep coach school and started on the path of recovery. And [00:04:30] I'm so glad, so grateful for that program and so happy that I found that. And I remember writing in my journal when I was going through this process and just even starting out with the program and my recovery that I was really terrified of two things, not sleeping, of course, so wakefulness and I was also terrified of the meds.

(04:56):

And it created so much inner [00:05:00] conflict and hyper arousal, these two really big fears. And the whole journey for me through insomnia was about really facing the fears and coming to terms with those fears. And I really had to come to terms with both of those things in order to find recovery for myself. So a lot of times in the program we talk about [00:05:30] this overcoming the fear of wakefulness and that's what leads to recovery and how we meet that experience differently. And of course there's truth in that and that is true, but there are also so many hidden fears we have around sleep in general. It's not just a fear of wakefulness, it's a fear of how we're going to feel the next day. It's a fear of our next trip. It's a fear of a sleepless night. And for me in [00:06:00] that bag of fears was the fear of the meds.

(06:05):

And so all of these fears I really had to meet and face and really deal with and come to peace with all of them in order for me to feel like I was recovered. And I do now. So I have dealt with those fears. And I'm not saying that there may be more. This is an ongoing journey [00:06:30] I feel like, and I'm willing and open to experience that now. And that's the difference. I know I can handle it and I know I'll be okay. So that's really kind of recovery in my opinion, is knowing that we can handle it and that we're going to be okay no matter what.

Beth (06:51):

Oh, I love that, just that resilience piece of it. And I love the way you described these sort of hidden fears, and I [00:07:00] always think of it as a bit of a neural network in the mind. Insomnia, it kind of just takes up space and you can kind of knock out one part of the network, but then the other part of the network might show itself for you to work through. And just looking at this is a deep work that you have obviously done on looking at like, oh, what's in this bag of fears? What's in this bag? And really almost coming at that from a place of curiosity, trick or treat bag or something like, oh, what else is [00:07:30] in here?

Aly (07:30):

Yeah, what other unaddressed fears?

Beth (07:33):

Yeah, yeah, we get, and the sleep beds, it was a big one for me too. And my biggest thing with sleep beds was, I think I had a lot of fears around it, but probably the biggest one was, what if they stop working? Or what if I run out of meds to try? I was on so many different meds over those decades and combinations and just everything. And I was like, [00:08:00] what if there's not enough meds on the market for me to cycle through? So, what were some of the other things for you that came into the picture with meds and your journey both with insomnia and during recovery?

Aly (08:17):

I think that for me it was a personal, almost a value statement. It means I'm weak if I am taking a med, I'm somehow [00:08:30] weak or it's impeding my progress, or I should be able to handle this without help or without support. So it was almost like a worthiness thing. I should be better than this. I shouldn't need this really that you're weak. I think that that was the biggest one that I had to work with. [00:09:00] Those other ones that you mentioned, those were there too, but it was more of a, I felt like this fear that it said something bad about me.

(09:12):

And I think that's so common in this space. I hear it so, so much. And so for me, I really had to unravel a belief paradigm about what it said about [00:09:30] me or what I believed it said. Right. And that took a lot of inner work and it took a lot of really holding that belief in the light and saying, is this true? And how can I know it's true? And what does it mean if it is true? What does it mean if it isn't true? Let's figure out how this is working. [00:10:00] And as we know, beliefs are just a collection of thoughts, and it becomes this narrative and those narratives are so powerful and they can really keep us stuck in our journey out of the struggle because we decided we have this belief that this makes me wrong or bad, so I can't do that. And so it takes on almost its own energy and its own [00:10:30] fear basically, because we've given it that power.

(10:38):

And so for me, it was really having to unravel that and it took a lot of time. And the piece that I had to get in order to work with that and kind of overcome that fear was the self-kindness that I was so hard on myself. I would be raped myself [00:11:00] when I took the med. I failed. I didn't make it through the night without taking a med. And it was just this huge heaviness that there was something inherently wrong with me if I decided to use that med for support. And so this whole journey became about being kind to myself and how I would talk to my child or my best friend or someone I [00:11:30] loved that was going through a similar experience and how I would just hold them and say, it's okay. And oh my goodness, if this med is supportive, please take it if this is something that can help you with your journey and be maybe actually assisting in that path of recovery rather than enduring this path.

(11:57):

And so it was a lot of that reframing [00:12:00] how I talked to myself. And it took a lot of time. It took a lot of time, but during one of my more recent speed bumps several months ago, I finally got this piece. And what I found is that that self-kindness was available, and I was able to say, this isn't your forever. If it [00:12:30] feels supportive to take a med, if that is going to feel like a self-kindness, that is absolutely fine. That is perfectly okay. It says nothing bad about you, it's not a personal reflection. Is there as a support when needed.

(12:55):

So the heaviness lifted and all of a sudden I had [00:13:00] that power that I had given this, this substance. It just lost all power. It just faded. And so of course, because I was no longer fearful of the med and it was neutral, it always had been, I had assigned the meaning to it all along. The med had always been neutral, but it was this heaviness that I had associated with it. And once I was able to unravel that [00:13:30] and kind of see it for what it was, it no longer had any of that meaning that I had given it. And so it became more of an act of self-kindness, and that when that did happen, when that change happened, all of a sudden didn't find that I needed that support so much because I wasn't afraid of it. And so [00:14:00] once I had met the fear and worked with the fear around the meds, it lost power over me.

(14:06):

Same way that we deal with a night of wakefulness, once I meet that fear and I recognize that I am okay, it is not a life-threatening experience, I will be okay, then the fear starts to dissipate and no longer has that power over me. And it's the same with every single fear [00:14:30] I meet along this recovery journey, the fear of how I'm going to feel the next day, the fear of the trip, whatever it is, the fear of the anxiety, the fear of feeling like crap. All of this is all, it's all the same essentially, right? Yeah. These fears that we meet and the story that we tell ourselves about what it means, and that is a really important piece, that narrative [00:15:00] piece. So once I got clear about what that was, and I could really see it for what it was, and it was a way of me really being so hard on myself, I had to be somehow superhuman and giving myself permission to be human. All humans need support,

Beth (15:23):

Right? Yes, a hundred percent.

Aly (15:26):

And so it was just like, I can't tell you, [00:15:30] but it was like this weight had been lifted.

Beth (15:32):

Yes,

Aly (15:33):

Yes. I know

Beth (15:35):

I do. Yes. I'm nodding along because I love the way you described this so much, and it makes so much sense that we, coming from the space that we come from, the health and wellness space, we do develop these belief paradigms and how we experience something is sort of built on those beliefs. But then you start, [00:16:00] I love how you explained how that speed bump is what gave you, it was that particular speed bump that gave you that clarity or that opportunity to look at, okay, what is holding up this experience? What is really going on here? And doing some self-reflection. And that was the speed bump that offered you that compassion piece around sleep meds, and how quickly things can shift when you have a paradigm shift around, wait a minute, is this what I'm telling myself [00:16:30] even true? And is this the belief I want?

(16:33):

And it was from that, and that was how it was for me too, when I realized insomnia itself was simply a belief system and identity I had developed and practiced my whole life unconsciously and unintentionally, of course, but when I realized there was never anything physically wrong with me or my ability to sleep, those sleep meds themselves took on a different meaning, a different like, oh. And then I started [00:17:00] using them more as a tool for, I use them as something to work for me versus them being the enemy of my recovery. And I think that was a big shift as well. But I love that just that speed bump. This is where speed bumps are really nothing to fear, because you will get that little piece of information that you need to start breaking out of that neural network for good hundred percent. It just takes time. [00:17:30] It just takes

Aly (17:30):

Time.

Beth (17:31):

Yeah. Did you find, we talked a little bit before we hit record that when there's this letting go of pressure and giving yourself permission to take care of yourself and be kind to yourself in whatever way is needed, whatever way that looks like for you, then those things actually do start working better.

Aly (17:55):

When the inner conflict and the berating and the self-judgment, [00:18:00] and when all of that is no longer there, then obviously all that causes hyper arousal and worry, and it's just kind of fueling the fire. And so when all of that is no longer there, and I've made peace with that, I've met that fear, then yes, the pressure is gone. So the hyper arousal's coming is down, and they're much more effective because I'm not fighting them.

Beth (18:28):

Right? [00:18:30] And that's the freedom that allows you to open the door to move out of it too.

Aly (18:35):

And the freedom, that's another thing that I think is really important to mention, because I do really believe that recovery is about finding freedom from our fears, right? Yes. And so every speed bump, at least for me in my recovery, has been about addressing those hidden fears. And every speed [00:19:00] bump, it's like my brain turning over another rock and going, oh, you missed one. Here's another one. And so every speed bump was an opportunity to meet a fear that I maybe hadn't even been aware of. And the sleep med one, it kind of got buried. And so it lasted well long into my journey that I hadn't dealt [00:19:30] with that fear. And once I did, it was just freedom. It was just freedom. At the end of the day, I knew it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You can take the med, you cannot take the med.

(19:43):

It's neutral, it doesn't matter. And it just was so freeing. But I would say that to myself, but I didn't actually believe it until that speed bump. I mentioned a three or four months ago where I had [00:20:00] that experience of meeting that fear in a new way and going, oh, right. And so it shifted. So that piece, that self-kindness piece for me, it came towards the end of my journey. It was kind of that missing piece. So it's pretty phenomenal because I do think that recovery is about freedom from all the fears around all things sleep.

Beth (20:28):

Yeah.

Aly (20:29):

Yeah,

Beth (20:30):

[00:20:30] Definitely. Even more than just that one. It's just

Aly (20:34):

For sure,

Beth (20:35):

A collection and freedom from that. I think that word freedom is really key, because isn't that all what we want with sleep, is just that freedom from worrying about it or thinking about it or having it take up so much space in our mind.

Aly (20:52):

Absolutely.

Beth (20:53):

Yeah. And I think it's also so interesting how it came later, and I was just in [00:21:00] my community earlier, someone said something along the lines of, I realized today that as long as I continue to try to avoid sleeplessness, the longer it's going to be a problem or the longer. And it was like, even though we hear things over and over, it's almost like the survival brain has a hierarchy of when it will allow you to [00:21:30] really embody that information because it's so normal to hear self-compassion. We say it a lot, and we remind our students and clients of that so often this piece, be kind to yourself, be compassionate, because that is the frequency of safety and of sleep, but it's sort of like it will come in its own time and you just trust the process. And for you, it just came in that particular speed bump, which is sometimes [00:22:00] frustrating because I think we want to be able to just know it and embody it all right away at one time. And Oh,

Aly (22:07):

For sure.

Beth (22:07):

The journey is just, so that's what makes it so interesting is that it will come, it comes on its own time, and just trusting that it does come. And I think it's why people do tend to, even when they recover from insomnia, kind of continue with the learnings and the teachings because it's so interesting our minds [00:22:30] and how we unravel this whole process. Very fascinating.

Aly (22:36):

It really, really is.

Beth (22:39):

So, okay, you've already shared so much, so many hopeful things. Are there any insights that you would offer to someone that is currently on the climb or on the path, so to speak?

Aly (22:56):

Yeah, what comes to me right now, and I think [00:23:00] one aspect I also just wanted to mention is the speed bumps are really, they're definitely part of the process. And we always talk in this space about how so much of the recovery or they're real leaps forward can happen in those feed bumps. And it is because we're able to meet these fears and show the brain that we're safe, and it's okay to experience fear and all of that is [00:23:30] true. And then the other thing I experienced, and maybe you can give your insight here too, but during my recovery journey, I found that, and it's going to sound so obvious when I say it, but I'll explain it a little bit better. So whenever I was in a speed bump and I found myself fighting or resisting that speed bump, we know that that's not helpful.

(23:58):

And we talk about not fighting [00:24:00] and not resisting, and all of that is helpful information. However, it's part of our brain's biology to problem solve. Yes. And so for me, how it played out was every speed bump, my brain was going to go into problem solving mode, and there wasn't a lot I could do to fight that biology. So I started to let it just do that, and I was like, okay, [00:24:30] do your thing. Do what you got to do. Because it felt like I was trying to force it to stop doing what it by nature needed to do to try to protect me or try to keep me safe. And so I kind of let it go through all its iterations of problem solving, and that tended to be what the speed bumps were. It's going to problem solve, it's going to meet these fears, it's going to show [00:25:00] me where there's hidden fears, and all of that is going to happen in these speed bumps.

(25:05):

And how they sort of fizzled out is I just let the brain do what it needed to do. And sometimes that meant taking a sleep med, sometimes it didn't. But I let it go through it all, its iterations, and then it would land on, oh, there's nothing we can do. Oh, there's nothing I can do. And every time [00:25:30] they happened, it landed there a little bit sooner because it would go through its process, its iterations of problem solving and fixing and trying to control. And then it would go, oh, yeah, that's right. There's nothing we can do. And so it just kind of was this progression. And I think that's kind of how we get closer to that place of surrender when the brain finally gets [00:26:00] to that point of, oh, there's nothing I can do. And so it happens slowly because our brain is programmed to be the survival machine, and it happens slowly because it's our biology and it's doing its best to protect us. And so we have to allow that process as well. And then also these teachings about needing the fear [00:26:30] and being able to tolerate some discomfort, expanding our capacity to be with some discomfort, and all of that is so important along the journey and allowing that brain and that process to naturally and organically unfold. Because it will, like you said, right, it's just takes longer than any of us want it to take. Yeah,

Beth (26:59):

Exactly. [00:27:00] I love that. I think it's like you almost have to just let your brain kind of burn it off on its own. You can hold these two knowingnesse's simultaneously. You get to the point where you are watching your brain do it, it's going to do it, but you also somewhat know that there's nothing we need to do because there's nothing we can do. But you have to just let your brain do what it's designed to do and do that problem solving and go through it to [00:27:30] get to that point, to get to that circle. And eventually that just becomes less and less until your brain doesn't feel the need to do it anymore.

Aly (27:41):

Exactly right.

Beth (27:42):

Yeah. I mean, it really is an organic process, and it doesn't need to be a judgment like, oh, this is bad, or I can't do this or it. It's more of just understanding yourself and your own brain and just holding [00:28:00] these two knowingnesses at the same time until the one just gets a little bit stronger and a little bit bigger and a little bit more all encompassing to where all that researching just becomes, or problem solving or trying to pattern seeking or figureing out what's causing what, or that just becomes, I don't know, just boring.

Aly (28:22):

Your brain just is like, yeah, the brain's like, oh, yeah,

Beth (28:25):

I don't even want to do that anymore.

Aly (28:27):

Nothing to do here.

Beth (28:28):

Exactly.

Aly (28:30):

[00:28:30] Yeah, you said it great. You said it perfectly.

Beth (28:33):

I think that's a really great insight, and just giving your brain permission to just go off and do that.

Aly (28:41):

Ahead and not worry. Worry. I see it a lot with coaching too. And in the community, it's like trying to, one, we can't force acceptance. That is the whole process and the whole journey of recovery, [00:29:00] and it's not an intermediary task, and we can't jump to it. The way we get there is by all of these experiences and through the speed bumps and through the process of abandoning the struggle, because our brain is trying all of these things to fix and solve and control and manage until it realizes there's nothing to fix, solve, or manage. Yes.

Beth (29:25):

And that is the place [00:29:30] you'll always end up at too, because it's in the nothingness that sleep happens. Yeah, that's a really, really good point. Just that we almost have to do that little song and dance several times and just let our brains do that. And I think for me, in some way, because I'd had insomnia for so long and I had done so many things [00:30:00] that that process could have been a little bit shorter for me because I had already, after decades just done everything that I might have been, although even so, it still took me a couple of years.

Aly (30:15):

Oh, yeah. I mean, I had insomnia for a little over, I guess, maybe a little over a year, year and a half, and it took me a year to recover. So

(30:29):

Yeah, I [00:30:30] think it's just everybody's going to look different. We obviously don't like to put timelines on anything because it just takes as long as it takes. It takes as long as it takes. And I also do, and I say this a lot in coaching, because people will ask often like, well, do you think that you're recovered? And the answer to that is, yes, I do. But I do like to put a little caveat on there because I do think the recovery process isn't ongoing. And [00:31:00] the reason is this, these are universal principles and universal truths, really. So that idea of letting go of what we can't control and learning to be less attached to the outcome, these are lessons that I will be learning for the rest of my life, and not in the realm of sleep necessarily, but everything else for

Beth (31:29):

Sure.

Aly (31:30):

[00:31:30] And so that's why I say recovery is ongoing, because these are universal principles that are going to play out in other ways in our lives. And the really cool thing about going through something like this is it ripples. So understanding these concepts, and obviously experientially, somatically, not the intellectual understanding, because that's not where the change lives, but once [00:32:00] we've kind of felt that and we understand that process, it plays out in every arena in our lives, or at least it has for me in such a really profound and beneficial way, just this idea and this learning of letting go of what I can't control, which turns out it's most things.

Beth (32:26):

It's a lot of 'em. And you know what? [00:32:30] It's such a relief sometimes to just realize, wait, this is just completely out of my control and I don't need to worry about this, and what can I do? So moving on.

Aly (32:38):

Yep, yep, yep. And the same thing being less attached to the outcome. I like to say we're human. So unless we're a monk on the mountain, we might not be completely unattached, but we can learn to be less attached. And I think that is, oh, it's [00:33:00] saved me a lot of heartache in other arenas of my life, not having anything to do with sleep. So I just think it's such a profound process, and I do believe that this is the vehicle that all of these lessons came to me for me to learn through insomnia, but it would've come another way because these were principles and life lessons that I feel [00:33:30] like I really needed to learn. And I think they're universal. I think that it's part of the experience of being human

Beth (33:39):

Of life. Well said. So well said. Well, I cannot thank you enough for joining us, Allie. Let everyone know where they can find you. And I'll also post it in the show notes.

Aly (33:54):

Okay. Well, you can always find me on Instagram, and that handle is just Sacred [00:34:00] Sleep Coach. And I do have a website with the same name, sacred Sleep coach.com. And any chance I get, I will come and talk with you, Beth, because I just adore you as you know.

Beth (34:22):

Well, I feel the exact same, and you can come back anytime and everyone out there listening, thank you for joining us today. [00:34:30] I am Beth Kendall, and you've been listening to the Mind.Body. Sleep Podcast. We'll see you next time.