Ep 45. Jennifer's Powerful Path Out of Insomnia

In this amazing interview, I sit down with Jennifer, another Mind. Body. Sleep. graduate, to discuss her transformative journey through insomnia and recovery.

Jennifer opens up about her struggles, the two factors that LED to insomnia, and the breakthroughs that helped her out.

On releasing pressure around sleep:

"This whole time I was like, ‘Is this physical? Is it hormonal? I need to take a pill.’ But when the pressure was off, I slept. That was really eye-opening for me."

Jennifer shares many insights, including:

• How a combination of challenges changed her relationship with sleep
• How she started breaking the cycle
• How she maneuvered through the speed bumps
• The key turning points in her recovery

This story is a about patience. Self-kindness. And faith. By embracing trust, and leaning on community, Jennifer found her way back to peaceful sleep 🧡

You can, too.

Enjoy!

Connect with Beth Kendall:

👉 Instagram

Work with Beth Kendall:

👉 Start the Free Insomnia Course

👉 Learn About the Mentorship

Full Show Notes and Transcription

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About Beth Kendall MA, FNTP:

For decades, Beth struggled with the relentless grip of insomnia. After finally understanding insomnia from a mind-body perspective, she changed her relationship with sleep, and completely recovered. Liberated from the constant worry of not sleeping, she’s on a mission to help others recover as well. Her transformative program Mind. Body. Sleep.® has been a beacon of light for hundreds of others seeking solace from sleepless nights.

© 2023 - 2025 Beth Kendall

DISCLAIMER: The podcasts available on this website have been produced for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this podcast do not constitute medical or professional advice. No person listening to and/or viewing any podcast from this website should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of a podcast without first seeking appropriate professional advice and/or counseling, nor shall the information be used as a substitute for professional advice and/or counseling. The Mind. Body. Sleep. Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on any or all contents of this site as there are no assurances as to any particular outcome.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the podcast. I am so happy today to be joined by another MINDBODY Sleep graduate. Welcome, Jennifer.

Jennifer (00:32):

Thank you, Beth, for having me.

Beth (00:34):

Well, thanks so much for coming on. I know we've been talking about doing the show for a while, and you've had some exciting things going on, so I'm so glad we were finally able to work it out.

Jennifer (00:46):

Yes, me too. Thank you.

Beth (00:47):

Yeah. So I always like to start by just giving the listeners a lay of the land. How did insomnia start for you and what was life like before you joined the mentorship?

Jennifer (01:02):

Well, I'm someone who I didn't struggle with insomnia throughout my entire life. It was a pretty fairly quick onset for me,

(01:12):

And it began in the summer of 2023. And looking back on it, I can see from an outsider's perspective some major factors coming together to create this perfect storm. And I think the biggest thing that was at play, or I see two major things that were at play for me in insomnia starting, and that is that my mom, a year prior to that, my mom had very suddenly passed away in her sleep just very unexpectedly. And of course, that just rocked my world. It just changed everything for me. And I'd never lost anyone that close to me before I was in the thick of raising four young children and homeschooling them. And we just are very busy with our family life. And so she passed away at the beginning of the summer of 2022. And looking back, I think that I just sort of stayed busy for the next year. It was easy to just kind of, it wasn't easy, but I just kept going.

Jennifer (02:34):

And I didn't realize until about a year later, shortly after the one year anniversary of her passing, things just really caught up to me. And grief came calling, and I think you can delay grieving, but it's always going to catch up to you. And it did to me. The other major factor that was at play is that I'm a woman in her early forties, and so my hormones are all over the place. And I knew I had suspicions that I was perimenopausal, and I had some symptoms that were leading me to think that. And actually when my sleep issues began, that's what I first thought, okay, well, I'm in perimenopause. I knew that progesterone started to decline first, and that one is associated with the ability to sleep and with your anxiety levels. And so when I started having these major sleep issues at the beginning of the summer of 2023, that was where my mind first went. Things kind of got progressively worse, and I wasn't really sure what I was dealing with. I kept asking my husband, do you think this is grief, or do you think this is hormones? What is happening to me?

(03:58):

And honestly, I think it was both that were just kind of coming at me at once. And so my sleep would just get worse and worse. And every day I would try something new to help. Okay, well, maybe I need melatonin or I need the sun on my face in the mornings, or I need to have my husband sleep somewhere else. And literally, there were times where we had a chart. We would write this chart on our whiteboard trying to solve a murder. You're writing down everything, trying to work out the formula for a good night's sleep, and it just wasn't happening. And so I went to a couple of providers here where I live and I mentioned perimenopause, and I just kind of either got a blank stare or I had another provider tell me, I think I was 40, almost 41 at the time. And another provider said, oh, no, that can't be at, you're too young.

(05:04):

And I had my blood work done, but blood work and testing your hormones is a little bit not so dependable because your hormones are all over the place on any given day. And so that for me, having doctors tell me, we don't know what's wrong with you. It's not perimenopause here, take these heavy meds. That really perpetuated so much fear for me to feel like you have this huge thing wrong with you. And then to have medical professionals tell you like, well, we don't really know, just take this medicine.

(05:43):

And then you start reading the side effects of the medicine and you get even more freaked out. And at the worst times I can recall taking kind of heavy medication and getting a couple of hours of really interrupted sleep, I felt like I was half awake the whole time and having these weird dreams. And it was just a really awful feeling to feel like no one can help me. What am I going to do? And my husband works. I'm home with the kids, we homeschool. And there was that pressure of I have four people who are depending on me to function tomorrow, and I don't have the option to slip away and try to take a nap, although a nap would've never happened. I was too hyper aroused, but I just felt this pressure of I have to sleep because these people are depending on me and we've got things to do. And it is just the more I tried, the worse it got. And I know now that that was, of course, that's how it turned out. Sleep just does not respond to effort and trying to solve it like a riddle,

(07:04):

That's not how it works. But of course, I didn't know that at the time. And so things just kept kind of spiraling in The more days I would go without a good night's sleep, the more anxious and panicky I would get. And I was having panic attacks. And I would say the first turning point for me was I had seen a couple of doctors here in town and gotten those answers of, I don't know what this is, but it's not perimenopause. Here, take some medication. And finally, my husband and I were like, we need to call our old doctor. We used to live in Texas, and we had a family doctor there that we adored and we trusted him so much. And so we called him and he listened to me talk for a few minutes and he said, well, you're not crazy. You just need progesterone. And so he wrote me a prescription. I started it that evening, and I'm telling you immediately the panic attacks subsided. I was still anxious, but the panic attacks subsided very quickly. It was a noticeable difference in many ways, but the damage to my relationship with sleep was already done.

(08:26):

And so I kind of look back at that whole period leading up to that moment as the sleep disruption that we talk about. You are going to have sleep disruptions in life whether you have a baby or have surgery or move or whatever it may be. And those are normal. But this led to just a really fractured, terrible relationship with sleep. And so the progesterone was what I needed, and it helped in so many ways, and I'm still on it and I love it,

(08:59):

But it wasn't the magic pill for sleep because that broken relationship went beyond my hormones. And it went into not trusting this very natural process. And so that was the first turning point for me. And then the next one was finding you, and I think I found you through Instagram. I was starting to travel down the road of CBTI and I did not get very far, thankfully, because I think I would've then had to unlearn some more things possibly. And so somehow you came up in my feed and I started looking through your Instagram page, which led me to looking through your blog. And I don't know if you'll remember this, but I reached out to you because I've been reading your blog, and I saw that you had this email course, and I reached out to you and asked you if you would send it to me all at one time.

Beth (10:03):

Oh, I do remember somebody asking me that. I didn't make the connection that it was you. I think I did.

Jennifer (10:10):

Remember that. Me and you were so mean and said, no.

Beth (10:15):

I think I said, no, I really am looking out for your best interest or something like that. You really were.

Jennifer (10:19):

I'm just kidding.

(10:21):

I say that you really were. You said something along the lines of, I really don't think that's best, because your brain really does need the time to assimilate this information. And you were so right. And I hated that answer, but you were so right, because it really does just take time, even when

Beth (10:41):

It really does,

Jennifer (10:43):

Even when you are learning all of the right things and you feel like you're making progress, it just takes time. It's not a quick fix.

Beth (10:52):

Yeah. Well, thank you. I think you set the stage so well for this. And I think a lot of people are going to relate to your story, and I think that we're always just doing the best we can from the level of understanding that we have. And looking back, you can really see the path and how it led to this association with being awake at night or this association with not sleeping as something really bad or really hard, and how that sleep disruption with the factor, the grieving process combined with the hormonal shifting going on and going to doctors and them not really being able to help you, and then starts the path of finding the perfect formula that you mentioned and problem solving, and it really starting to become hardwired as a problem. And then getting that progesterone, which sounds like it really helped you a lot, but then still having these emotions around sleep due to these past associations that are still kind of showing up. That all makes so much sense.

Jennifer (12:12):

Yeah, and what's crazy is that my onset of insomnia, I would say, took place over a very short period of time. I would say that the period of time that it took for my relationship to sleep to be fractured or damaged, I would say it was two or three weeks maybe. And it took, I would say a solid year or more to really move past that. And I still don't sleep perfectly. I still have nights where I doze off on the couch and then I get in bed and it takes me a couple hours to fall asleep. That doesn't happen often, but the difference is that I now see that as normal, because that's how I was before insomnia. If I fell asleep on the couch, I'd have a hard time getting back to sleep, but that was fine. It didn't bother me. I knew it was normal. And so now I kind of feel like I'm almost all the way back to where I was prior to insomnia. And that's a wonderful feeling.

Beth (13:22):

Yes. Oh, I'm just, that just totally warms my heart, and I'm glad you mentioned the longer recovery time because I really want to normalize that it does take time, and I've been very open about how long it took me in spite of being immersed in this work. And sometimes you really do. I always say, we can learn this fear so quickly and make these associations very quickly, but then unlearning it takes a little more time and it can be a rocky road. So I am glad you mentioned that, and I think it'll help others feel like, oh, if they're not at the place that they think they should be, that that's not unusual and is actually very normal.

Jennifer (14:10):

And that whole year or more that I consider to be recovery for me, it's not like every night was hard.

Beth (14:17):

Right? Exactly.

Jennifer (14:19):

Yes. Yeah. I would go through sometimes long periods of time where sleep would be effortless for me. And then I found, especially with grief anniversaries, it was Mother's Day or the anniversary of her passing or her birthday or Christmas or anything that would, or my dad started dating again and eventually got married again. There were so many opportunities where my brain would, those old fears would get brought up again of like, okay, am I going to be able to sleep? I'm emotionally drained. I'm emotionally distraught. Am I going to be able to sleep? And then just regular life occurrences too, having surgery or stuff going on with the kids or whatever. And so I would hit these speed bumps. And it's so funny because I think someone in the mentorship in the Slack group said, when you hit a speed bump, it's amazing how quickly you'll go back to feeling like you're just absolutely at square one. And I found that to be true for myself. Every time I hit a speed bump, I felt like all was lost, and I was never going to sleep again. And maybe this really wasn't working for me. But then eventually I realized that even if that feeling came with the speed bump, I knew that it wasn't true, that it was just a feeling,

(15:45):

And I was able to kind of differentiate between how I'm feeling, what I know to be true.

Beth (15:51):

Yes. Oh, that's such a good distinction. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Let's go back a little bit. So you were heading down the CBTI route. You found me on Instagram, you emailed me. You wanted the whole course right away. I said no, and you did the free course, obviously, and then you came into the mentorship and it's a rocky road, of course. Okay. So tell us more, because I know, and I want to swing back around to the speed bumps and how our minds go back to, yes, we're back at square one. All hope is lost. I'm not recovering all the things. And walk us back up to that point when you first came in and how that process went for you.

Jennifer (16:41):

Let me think. I remember spending a lot of time on your website. I probably read all of your blog entries or almost all of them. I did your free email course. There wasn't a podcast at the time, I don't believe, but I took advantage of all the free material that you have. And honestly, Beth, it's so much someone could absolutely recover from insomnia, just from the free material that you've offered. And I'm so grateful for that.

(17:08):

I felt like for me, I wanted that extra support. And so my husband, God bless him, he said, yes. I mean, we've got a bunch of kids, and it wasn't the easiest decision financially, but he was in agreement and we went for it, and it was worth every penny. And so I started the program, and even your video teachings in the program come out in a timed fashion. You can't access it all right away. It's week by week. And again, I would open it up Wednesday or whatever day of the week it was. I don't remember. I would open it up and watch it right away and then wait anxiously for the next week. Because when you're in it, you just want to do whatever you can to get out of it. And I think it's so interesting whenever you talk about how people who struggle with insomnia are very often driven problem solvers, efficient go-getters, perfectionists, and worriers. And I very much fit that mold. And so if I have now stumbled upon this program and I'm convinced this is the way to go, then let me do it as quickly as I can and just be done with this experience.

(18:34):

But that's not how it works, and that's for the best. And so I would just watch the videos every week. And the group, the Slack group that you're in when you're in the membership was to me, possibly the most effective tool. I mean, the teachings are great, the teachings are wonderful, but just that interaction in the group, when you find out that there's other people who are feeling exactly the way that you are, or they have felt that way, it just takes away some of that feeling of, I'm broken. No one else has ever felt this way. I'm so weird. Why am I going through this? But just to have that comradery of I get on there and see that someone else was having a hard time too, and we encourage each other, and then you hop on there or Coach Richard and reassure us that this is all very normal, and it is just such a supportive, wonderful community. And I think that that aspect of it helped tremendously in my recovery.

Beth (19:38):

Yeah, I agree. That is such an integral part of feeling less alone and also getting multiple perspectives and ways that can help your brain understand something, because people are in different stages of their own recovery in the group. And I'm always amazed at how well my students can explain something back to me better than I can explain it because they're closer to the experience than I am now. And just getting that input and that insight from different lived experiences, different people in the group can be so helpful. And I really enjoy that. I mean, I'm always a lifelong student, and I learned from you guys too, so I'm glad that that aspect of it was so helpful.

Jennifer (20:33):

It really was.

Beth (20:34):

Yeah. Okay, so you're in the group and you're moving along. What were some of the realizations that helped you the way?

Jennifer (20:50):

Well, I think one of the biggest things for me, when things were at their worst, I was very anxious, very fearful. I was just kind of a mess. And that was really hard and really humbling for me, because I usually at least seem to have it together. Even if I don't, I can make it look like I have it together.

(21:15):

And this period of time was a time where I was falling apart, honestly. And it was humbling for me, and I just felt like my life was falling apart. And so there was a day a doctor had prescribed some heavy meds for me, and that was really hard because I didn't even take pain meds when I had my four babies. I just didn't. And so that was really hard for me to take those meds. I was very fearful about the side effects, and I just didn't like the idea of being on them and not feeling like myself. And it was just very hard for me. And there was a time where my husband looked at me and just very lovingly said, Jen, you are afraid of everything.

(22:06):

And he was absolutely right. That kind of led me down a path of examining my life and realizing that I am a very fearful person, and that's not a way to live. And especially as a Christian, I felt like I'm not trusting the Lord in so many areas, and I want to trust him more. And that was a turning point for me, is realizing how much fear was calling the shots in my life. And knowing now through working with you and seeing that insomnia is really just a fear of not sleeping. I can see now why I sort of ended up on this journey with insomnia is because I'm fearful about a lot of things. And so that was a turning point for me is coming to realize that and kind of just shining the light on it and just insomnia is a teacher in that way. It can just really show you so much about how you handle life and how you handle suffering and difficulty. And it was a big learning experience for me.

Beth (23:24):

Yeah. I love the way you described that, shining a light on it. And I think insomnia does ask us to trust, and it does sort of show you maybe some of the ways we being in the world that could use a little shining the light on. And I think that what comes from the mentorship, people join because they're having a sleep problem, but they leave with a lot more than

Jennifer (24:03):

Absolutely.

Beth (24:04):

You know what I mean? It is almost impossible not to. Right.

Jennifer (24:09):

You find yourself connecting the dots in so many other areas of your life, right?

Beth (24:14):

Yes. Yes. Okay. So getting back to maybe the speed bumps. And one of the questions I was going to ask is what would you say to someone coming from what you know now? And I know as you get further and further from it, it can be almost hard to remember where you were, but what would you say to someone still on the climb or someone going through those rough patches or speed bumps?

Jennifer (24:50):

I think I would just say, you are going to be okay. It is a hard journey, and I used to think when I was going through it, okay, if I'm afraid of roller coasters or something, then I don't have to go on a roller coaster every day. I can sort of avoid them for a while and work on my fear of roller coasters and then amp myself up to go and ride one.

(25:19):

But when it's sleep and it's something that you have to do every day, it's hard to face that fear every day of like, okay, am I going to be up all night? Am I going to get two hours of sleep and have to function tomorrow, and can I take that trip? Can I go out? Can I do these things? It's like something that you have to face every single day, and it gets really draining because you're physically tired too, and then you're just mentally exhausted and it's hard, but you're going to be okay. And I remember one of the first, I'm not even sure if I joined the mentorship yet or not when this happened, but there's a pivotal moment for me where I realized, because this whole time I was like, okay, is this physical? Is it hormonal physical? I need to take a pill, or is this mental? I was still trying to figure all of that out,

(26:18):

And I'm someone who has to sleep with a box fan on. I've been like that my whole life. Anywhere I travel, I take my box fan with me. And so one night we had a big storm and the power went out, and so no Vox fans and our kids don't sleep that great when the power goes out and it was going to be hot. And so I remember the power went out right around bedtime that night, and I told my husband, I guess I'm just not going to sleep tonight. And I just resigned myself to it. I wasn't even upset. It was just a fact, I'm probably not going to sleep tonight. And I slept five straight hours, which at that time was miracle of all miracles to get five uninterrupted hours of sleep. And I think I emailed you that shortly after, and you were like, yeah, insomnia thrives on pressure, and when the pressure was off, you sleep. And so that was really eyeopening for me to see that yes, there are some physical things at play like my hormones, but this is really about the pressure to sleep and the fear of not sleeping, and those we can work on those.

(27:35):

So from that point on, it just became a journey of just learning to trust and learning to be okay with what is, and learning to befriend not only wakefulness, but just befriend whatever life hands you and not feel like I have to fix it all and just to be okay with it.

Beth (28:03):

Yes. Do you feel like you've gotten nicer to yourself or kinder to yourself along the way as you're noticing and maybe letting go of some of these pressure patterns?

Jennifer (28:16):

Absolutely. I hadn't thought about that in a while, but I remember talking about self-kindness with, is that what you said?

Beth (28:26):

Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer (28:29):

Yeah. Talking about it with some people in the mentorship. And that's something that I've always been harder on myself than anybody else has ever been on me. And when I think about how I would treat one of my own children going through something like this versus how I treated myself, there's a big disconnect there. And even, oh, I can't remember who said it, but even someone said something about kind of giving yourself a little bit of a hug and you're doing your best. Do you remember who said

Beth (29:08):

That? I don't. I do remember that though, but I don't remember who said it.

Jennifer (29:12):

And I'm very logical. That just sounded kind of out there to me. I'm not going to give myself a hug and tell myself, good job. That's ridiculous. And Beth, I did it and it felt awkward and everything, but it's like I just needed to be nice to myself. I just needed to give myself permission to struggle and that be okay. It doesn't mean I've failed as a person, or it's okay. Everyone struggles. And this was my struggle for a while.

(29:50):

For sure, being kinder to myself, treating myself more like I would treat my children or a dear friend or something, that was a big thing for me to learn.

Beth (30:03):

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I always ask at the very end, and you've already been so generous talking about your experience, but were there any silver linings that came from insomnia?

Jennifer (30:22):

Oh, definitely. For me, as a Christian, the biggest silver lining was just that I learned to trust the Lord more and every day. His grace was sufficient to get me through the day. And that doesn't mean any of it was easy, but it was always enough to get me through the day. And that was a huge lesson for me of just calm down, take a breath. His grace is sufficient. And that was the biggest thing for me. And so looking back, it was not fun. Zero out of 10 stars. Do not recommend insomnia. But if you have it, if you end up experiencing insomnia, it can be a teacher. It can show you so many things, and it gives you the opportunity to evaluate how you handle life and how you handle things that are out of your control. And looking back, it was not fun, but I'm grateful for it now because of just the growing and the learning, and I have such compassion now for other people who struggle in this area, which I thought it was just me, which sounds so ridiculous. But the more I started talking about my struggle, people that I knew in my personal life who I had no idea that they struggled with it, we would end up talking about it. And it just brought such comfort. Again, just that comradery of knowing that I'm not the only person in the world dealing with this,

(32:00):

And we can help each other. And so yeah, lots of silver linings for me. It was not fun at the moment, but I'm grateful for the experience.

Beth (32:10):

Amazing, amazing. Jennifer, it has been such an honor to be a part of your journey. I have really enjoyed working with you and the many valuable insights you've shared along the way. And thank you so much for coming on today.

Jennifer (32:29):

Thank you, Beth. I so appreciate you and the work that you're doing. Thank you.

Beth (32:33):

You're welcome. Until next time, everyone, I'm Beth Kendall and you've been listening to the MINDBODY Sleep Podcast. Bye for now.