Ep 39. How Majken Shifted Her Focus and Left Insomnia Behind

 In this beautiful interview, Majken opens up about her experience with insomnia, which started in her early 20’s after a stressful life event.

She tried all the traditional approaches over the years including medication and CBTI.

But insomnia kept coming back.

As a new Mom, her sleep struggles resurfaced and eventually Majken found her way into the Mind. Body. Sleep. mentorship.

Tune in to hear:

•  How she learned to focus on her responses (rather than trying to fix her sleep), and how this allowed insomnia to gradually loosen its grip.

•  How she learned to observe her brain instead of getting tangled up with it.

•  What got her through a later speed bump.

•  How she developed a more accepting and resilient approach to dealing with sleep disruptions.

Majken reflects on the tiny little joys brought her closer to life, and some unexpected silver linings that came from insomnia.

Connect with Beth Kendall:

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Work with Beth Kendall:

👉 Start the Free Insomnia Course

👉 Learn About the Mentorship

Full Show Notes and Transcription

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About Beth Kendall MA, FNTP:

For decades, Beth struggled with the relentless grip of insomnia. After finally understanding insomnia from a mind-body perspective, she changed her relationship with sleep, and completely recovered. Liberated from the constant worry of not sleeping, she’s on a mission to help others recover as well. Her transformative program Mind. Body. Sleep.® has been a beacon of light for hundreds of others seeking solace from sleepless nights.

 

DISCLAIMER: The podcasts available on this website have been produced for informational, educational and entertainment purposes only. The contents of this podcast do not constitute medical or professional advice. No person listening to and/or viewing any podcast from this website should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content of a podcast without first seeking appropriate professional advice and/or counseling, nor shall the information be used as a substitute for professional advice and/or counseling. The Mind. Body. Sleep. Podcast expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on any or all contents of this site as there are no assurance as to any particular outcome.

 

FULL TRANSCRIPT:

How Majken Transformed Her Mindset and Broke Free from Insomnia

Beth (00:43):

Hello everyone, and welcome to this very special episode where we have another MIND. BODY SLEEP. mentorship alum joining us today. Welcome, Majken!

Majken (00:53):

Thank you, Beth. Thank you.

Beth (00:55):

I'm so glad you're here. I'm always so happy when you guys reach out and want to be on the podcast because honestly, you guys can say this stuff better than I can a lot of times, and I think hearing these teachings from different people through different lenses can make such a difference to someone going through insomnia right now.

Majken (01:16):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really what I want to do. I want to both just share my own story and I guess give hope and then back up your approach, because it really worked very well for me.

Beth (01:31):

I'm so glad, and I am especially interested to hear from you what your journey has been like since completing the program, because that was almost exactly a year ago, right? Last September.

Majken (01:44):

Yeah,.

Beth (01:44):

Because you joined in June. Yeah, June of 2023.

Majken (01:48):

Yeah.

Beth (01:48):

Okay. I'm so excited to dig in. But let's start with, let's give us the lay of the land. How did insomnia start for you, and what was that like?

Majken (01:58):

Yeah, so I mean, it started back in my early twenties, so I'm in my mid thirties now, and I had my first experience with insomnia in my early twenties, and really it was, I mean, it's not up on me as it does for a lot of people, I think, but it came after a stressful life event. We had some pretty serious illness in the family, and I had recently moved to Copenhagen. I live in Denmark, far away from where I'm from, et cetera. And then it started showing up around, I think I took a trip. I was studying anthropology at the time. We took a trip to Greece and doing some field work, and it really started there on that trip.

(02:56):

And then I think very early on, somehow the connection between the symptoms, so just difficulty falling asleep for me was made with stress. And I mean, I'm very fortunate to have a very loving and caring mom. She's also been in the psychiatric system for many years, and I mean, it's been both good and bad because I called my mom whenever something is up and she makes her own conclusions. And I think probably that's where the conclusion came from. And then, well, yeah, I mean, she was like, yeah, just really, your body needs to calm down. Your nervous system needs to just chill and you'll come home and it'll get better. And then it got a little better. It showed up again around exams. It went away for a bit. And then six months I went by and then I had exams again. And it became really severe at that time. And I mean, I was going to say this so many years ago, so of course we had the internet, but I don't remember at that time to be falling into the research trip as such. But I guess I was still feeling a lot of anxiety around the symptom and really trying to fix it.

(04:29):

And then I think also with the backup of my mom, she was like, yeah, you need to seek help at your doctor. And I went there and it was kind of a story where they then said, yeah, this is probably stress related to exams. You're a young student, overachieving, blah, blah, blah. And then, yeah, I kind of got through different parts of the system until, not the system. I mean, I changed

Beth (05:10):

The traditional avenues.

Majken (05:11):

Yeah. That's it. And then it ended up with a diagnosis, I think at the end of, it was a summer, and I remember after a really bad couple of days without sleep, I went to the ya because I was so scared and crying and really just, I had no idea what was going on. And I went to the, and I think they probably gave me some mild antipsychotic, at least some very strong pills. And I should say at the time, I was also on sleeping pills, but they had stopped working. Then at that point, I kind of pulled the plug. I went home to my parents' place, which was also kind of the advice, right? If you are under a lot of stress, you need to just pull the plug and you need just get your mind and buddy in relaxed state for that. For me, the impulse was to go back to my parents' place, which was kind of a safe place to be. It didn't get better over the summer. And then I ended up at another doctor, and with the diagnosis of mild, I guess, depression, and that came me because this doctor, she was like, let's start. She started me on melatonin. It didn't work.

 

Majken (06:51):

She was like, let's start an antidepressant. So it was ine, I think it's, it's probably called different things. But anyway, it worked instantly. And that is because I later found out that it is used as an off brand for insomnia. And what it did for me, I think was just to knock me out. I mean, I think it knocks your nervous system out and then the fear disappeared, right? And then I think it was like, okay, the conclusion is you, this is a stress slash a depression, mild depression. And I was on the antidepressants for I think about a year, and then I stopped them and everything was fine. So I think it was really this pill that was like, okay, that's just working for me. And ever since then, I remember over the years, I was like, what if this stuff comes back? Because it was so debilitating, it was really the state I was in, it felt like a zombie. You're existing in the world, but not really.

Beth (08:23):

It creates an imprint. Yeah, it definitely does. And it can follow you around, oh, is that ever going to come back? Or what if that ever comes back? So I totally get it. And I'm sure that was really perplexing when you went on the meds that were initially for depression, but then here they help you with your sleep and you were probably like, well, this is great, but not really knowing still the underlying driver for insomnia.

Majken (08:54):

Exactly.

Beth (08:56):

So you got better and then they worked great. And then did you go off the meds or what happened then?

Majken (09:02):

Yeah, so I went off the meds and it was really a slow going off the meds slowly, and then it was fine. And for about 10 years it was fine. And I kind of revisited in my mind. I was like, yeah, what if this stuff comes back? And I was like, okay, I just have this medicine, so I don't worry about it. I have a medicine. So I mean, that makes sense. When this second episode comes about in my life, which was after I became a mom for the second time, and my daughter was three months old. And it was an intense time in my life, not only having a baby, but a second one. And also, I mean, even in motherhood, I am really working on decreasing the pressure that I put on myself. But I think at that early time, I did put a lot of pressure on myself, and of course it showed up in sleep with my son. My first born, I didn't, yeah, you wake up, sleep was bad. But it never got to the point where it was always because of the baby. It was never me.

(10:28):

And then I first remember one night with my daughter, and she was about three months old, and my partner wasn't there. I was alone with them. And it was a full night of not sleeping. And it was the first time where I had this, I had a little bit leading up to that, but it was the first time I was like, shit, this is not the baby. This is me. And I completely panicked, and I feel it was just the fear showing up. You said, I dunno, at some point in your show you said fear showing up in another pair of shoes, and this was just fear showing up in for giant boots, really, really big here. Yeah. And at the time, I didn't see as fear. I just instantly was like, shit, I can't, the mother of these two very young kids, I need to function. I can't go down like this. And so what I did, I instantly called next morning after not having slept. I first called my mom, and then I called my doctor and I got an appointment the next day, and I went to her and I said, this is what I'm experiencing. I had it before. I can't go through this right now. I need to go on the meds.

(12:02):

And she said, yeah, okay, we can do that. That's fine. You could also, just because it was diagnosed as depression or slash stress, she was like, you can also see cognitive therapy. That's what they recommend as a first step before you go on meds. And we can see this as an kind of postpartum depression or postpartum reaction. But I was quite, at the time, I was like, I want to go on the meds. I can yes, therapy, yes, but I want to go meds. Okay, fine. And well, the meds, I really meant, I'm not going through this again. They're going to help me straight away.

(12:55):

So I went on the meds and I also had some therapy, and then for about six months, it was fine. I didn't have any symptoms until it was New Year's ease, and I can just see it now. It's completely natural. It's completely natural to be affected by sleep, because we were at a friend's house, it was in the city, Copenhagen, in a neighborhood with it's so many fireworks throughout the night. And I had even a baby still, and I had my two young children, and I didn't sleep through the night. And it was like, yeah, but of course. But at that time I didn't see it as, and that's okay because I didn't know. But I then saw it as the meds are not working. And that's where I really freaked out. That's where it really, and yeah, then from there, we're moving into kind. It's also an emotional time for me to talk about, because it was such, until I encountered you, it was really a time, it was such tense anxiety, and I mean, all these attempts of fixing this and attempts ranging from going up in the doses of the meds,

(14:27):

And that was also recommended by my doctor, and I started all these kind of protective measures for my sleep. I started not sleeping with my, usually we co-sleep. I started sleeping away from my path on my kids stopping coffee, stopping and even, I dunno, it was like, then I read, yeah, you need to exercise every morning, whatever. So I went on a run with my daughter, like, sleep every morning, you need to take Cold Bath. So I did that, all these attempts of fixing it, which made it worse, and that's what I can see. But there was just no advice in another direction.

Beth (15:24):

Yeah, you didn't know. I mean, that's what they tell us to do. So that's what we do, and we do it earnestly and we do it well, and we're very determined and disciplined with all of it, but we're really not getting the full picture of what's going on. And that just can ramp it up more like, okay, none of this is really helping. In fact, what we're unintentionally doing is accommodating insomnia more. And I was so curious when you were talking, and I don't think I've ever asked this, but at the time, do you remember what you thought the problem was? Did you just feel it was just strictly a physical problem or do depression or postpartum still? Or what were your thoughts on it at the time...

Majken (16:11):

Yeah, I was pretty confused. I mean, the thing about, I think it occurred to me a couple of months into this process that there was something about the fact that it only being sleep. And I remember that also in my first episode, this kind of wonder, okay, yeah, but I'm actually not never, I mean, so what does it mean to be in the depression? I mean, of course, I don't know that, but this kind of, okay, it's really about sleep and not so many other symptoms at some point that led me to CBTI. But it's funny, it's funny, it's funny that you asked me that because I think I was also so guided by doctors and then my dear mom, who was also just really trying everything to help, but having her perspective on those kind of symptoms, which are strictly within the diagnosis scheme. And yeah, I can see that did trap me. And that's also one of the reasons why I wanted to come on the show, is that I also see other people or have encountered all the people around me being in this kind of trap where sleep is the main symptom.

(17:58):

But then, because when stress, I mean, it's just a tricky thing because of course you can, how do you distinguish between these kind of experiences or conditions? But at least for me, it was a trap, or at least a situation where I didn't, I could have gotten help earlier, I think if it wasn't because it was diagnosed as stress or depression, because in the end, the meds work, but they only work because they knocked me out and they took fairway and then until they didn't work,

Beth (18:44):

Right. And sometimes I think though, it's okay to go down those other routes first because usually people find the mentorship or find me usually when they've exhausted all those other things because this is much more of an, you know what I mean? This could be perceived as the harder way around. This is like, oh, that sounds like a lot of work, a lot of internal work versus, well, I can just do this clear cut approach. And just, I think naturally as human beings, we're much more inclined to take the path of least resistance versus, oh, having a whole reeducation on insomnia and everything else, but it's really the fastest way in a roundabout way. But all of that just makes so much sense. And then, so you were saying you ran into CBTI and how was that for you? That can go a lot of ways too.

Majken (19:46):

Yeah. I mean, I ran into these online programs and I think, yeah, I mean, I paid too much for something that was a text-based service. And I did follow it quite strictly for a while. These whatever, five and a half hours of sleep every night. Oh, yeah. A sleep restriction. Yeah. But mean, yeah, it led me to, I think maybe it was the third program or something where there was something about acceptance and commitment theory in it. And that started to resonate. And then I think if I had ever had a sleepless night or just a really rough night, I would just instantly go on Google whenever the night was over, and I would just research for, I dunno, 45 minutes, one hour completely what you're not supposed to do. But anyway, I did that, and on one of these research, just trying to crunch this, I did encounter your website and your free email course, and I signed up for it. And I think really soon after that I was like, okay, I mean, I need this. And at that point, I was really, yeah, I mean, as you are when you're just exhausted of this run in your life, I just, whatever it took to fix it. So yeah, I signed up for your course and I for your mentorship, and that's where it started. Yeah.

Beth (21:32):

And I'm so glad you did. I'm so glad you did. And so that was back in June of 2023, and then we worked together, and that was wonderful. So you would have graduated in September?

Majken (21:48):

Yes.

Beth (21:49):

A year ago. Tell us how the process going through the mentorship and what your recovery process was like since we have a span of time to look at with that.

Majken (22:04):

Yeah, yeah. So I remember just eagerly waiting. I think it was every Tuesday that you put out new video and sitting there waiting, and I mean, I think it really, maybe it was week two or something where it's really this kind of learning about responses and focusing on your responses. And that started quite quickly to resonate with me. And I remember one thing I didn't mention was that I had also isolated myself socially throughout months of just both taking one month in a vacation home and away from everyone, and the same kind of safety seeking behavior, but also at home, I had to spend really protecting myself. But I remember, I think it was about one week after studying a program, it was my birthday, and I was like, yeah, I'm going to invite people. And I would not have done that. I would just, because it was this kind of need to protect your energy in when you're in treatment for stress or depression, it's all about spending as little energy as possible.

(23:19):

I dunno, just really being in this kind of protective scheme also. And yeah, I think from there on, I really took this idea of challenging myself and focusing on the responses. And I will say mean, of course, those two, three months, over the summer, many bumpy nights. And I had also, I didn't work at the time. I mean, I was on maternity leave, but then I had kind of extended that into sick leave because I was simply not, I thought capable of working or function. And then I started work, I think also about a week after the first office call, because it was like, okay, it seems like I just need to attack life and no matter how hard it is. And yes, I started working, I started socializing again. We had a trip about, I think end of July to friends where my partner is from. I remember thinking we were going to a wedding and it was a super stressful full day of travel with two kids,

(24:45):

And the wedding was the day after, and we were sleeping in this cottage that we had rented. And first of all, I bumped my head during the night and got some kind of migraine, migraine attack, and then I had a full night of not sleeping, and I still went to the wedding the day after, and I was like, I'm not going to give a fuck. I'm just going to go to the wedding. And that I think was actually my last full night of no sleep. And I'm guessing I just would, without your support, without the program, I would just have stayed far away from any trip to France, any kind of trouble with young kids. But I just did it, and it was like, okay, I'm not going to care. It can come, but I'm going to do this because this is what life is. And of course, there were of course, days and nights with frustration, but I really just took this idea of focusing on life and focusing less on this, on insomnia.

Beth (25:58):

And sleep in general.

Majken (25:59):

Yeah. Yeah. And I just stopped trying to fix it and focus on other things. And I think there were many learnings that resonated with me throughout your program, but I think this mean, yeah, this focus on life, focus on what's going on around me on work, on kids attending party, and then it slowly lost its power. I mean, me and sleep slowly started to just be what it was, something that came, and sometimes it was hard and sometimes not hard, but sometimes I would've nights with little sleep, and that was okay. It wasn't the kind of the emotional attachment, the anxiety around it, it went away.

Beth (26:56):

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like a lot of times, I mean, sleep is, did you feel like a lot of the program integrated after the program, after the three months is when through that process of living life, those principles and teachings kept integrating?

Majken (27:17):

Yeah, sure. I did. I remember now. We had a call, I think back in January or something. I had a

Beth (27:26):

Okay, yeah. Oh yeah, that's

Majken (27:28):

Right. We had a speed bump.

Beth (27:29):

Yeah. Oh, good. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Because I know sometimes when people, they come through and they're sleeping really well and things are going really well, and then it isn't unusual at all to get a speed bump even several months in, and it can kind of throw you because you think, oh, I just thought I was just completely done with this, and it can just kind of knock the window out of you a little bit. So tell us a little bit more about that.

Majken (27:57):

Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was after Christmas and intense family holiday time, and I remember it was a week or two after, but I was like, yeah, booked an appointment with you and oh, I think I wrote you an email, and you were like, yeah, that's normal, but let's talk. And a lot of people experienced this around this time, and yeah, we talked, and I just really, I appreciate what you said. You said, I mean, it's not anything that you're doing wrong. It's just normal that it can come. And also, yeah, I said something, you'll have more clarity at the end of it, but I did start to have a little bit of the fixing behavior,

(28:51):

Not to the same extent as before, but I was like, you know what? I'm going to download this book or whatever. It was like, okay, fine. But then I had the call with you and I kind of went back into the acceptance of this being completely normal, that it was my brain looking out for me and it would pass. And I think since then, I've had many choppy nights. And I mean, recently we celebrated our wedding this summer, and it was quite a stressful time. I had choppy nights, but I'm able to have them now and not care about it, or not moving into fix it mode and just be like, yeah, it's fine. It's normal part of life. And even though some people never experience it, a lot of people do.

Beth (29:48):

I'd say most people do.

Majken (29:49):

Yeah. But when you are experience experiencing insomnia, you don't really see that. It's a very, very normal reaction on the path of your brain and your body to be in intense times having sleeping. But yeah.

Beth (30:08):

Yeah, that's well said. Yeah. I mean, everything you were saying about Christmas, I mean, I think, let's be real. I think even people without insomnia can have some rough sleep just with all of it. Just the whole thing can the travel, the family dynamics, all of it.

(30:26):

And it's so common. And as you move further and further in your recovery, the sensitivity to those choppy nights just gets less. There's sensitivity to just normal sleep disruptions. They will just become normal sleep disruptions again, and your brain doesn't just go into full activation mode anymore. And yeah, I'm so glad. I'm just so glad to hear that. And were there any silver linings that came with the experience of insomnia for you, Mike?

Majken (31:08):

Yeah, I thought about a couple, but I mean, I think one thing that's really important for me in my life now is this notion of, I think you call it brain drama at some point, or the ability to look at what my brain is telling me and sometimes just don't care. That's not only sleep, that's also other areas in my life where I can be like, oh, now my brain is completely freaking out about this or this or that.

Beth (31:43):

My brain does this frequently,

Majken (31:45):

And I can just be like, yeah, okay, yeah, maybe it's going to be fine, and move on and label it as brain drama and just not go along with it. And that's such a freeing skill to have, in fact, and I remember before also in cognitive therapy, this notion of that you are not your thoughts. And I never really understood it. I know you hear it so much,

(32:15):

You're not your thoughts and emotions, but what does it actually mean? I mean, going through this, I really understand it now. I really understand it, and I, it's so helpful in parenting, even the worries I can have about many things in life. I have the skill to look at all this brain drama and kind of be like, well, maybe it's going to be fine. We see. So definitely that's a silver lining. And then I think also just in your teaching, there is also the focus on life and joy. Joy in little things. And it sounds so al, but it is really all there is.

Beth (33:10):

Yeah...

Majken (33:13):

It's being able to really, I think we said once dug into the flow and even in the flow also just experiencing all these joys that I offer to us every day in nature, in relationships, some solitude and food, and you work, whatever. And I don't remember it all the time, and I think it's a lifelong learning and to really appreciate that and to be with that. But I think definitely your program has also put me further on the course of that. So yeah, plenty of silver linings.

Beth (34:08):

So well said. I am glad that you had some silver linings. I remember I had a guest while back and she was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know if there were any silver linings, but I mean, sometimes there are. And sometimes they come later and it can be even much later. But those are beautiful, beautiful reflections. Well, this feels like a wonderful place to wrap up this beautiful interview, Majken. And I cannot thank you enough for sharing your story and vulnerability with us. Thank you for being here.

Majken (34:46):

Well, thank you, Beth.

Beth (34:48):

Yeah,

Majken (34:49):

That's all I can say. Thank you.

Beth (34:51):

Yeah, you are. It's my pleasure to be able to do this work and see, and then to be able to talk to you guys a year later is just icing on the cake. So if any of the other MIND. BODY. SLEEP. alums out there want to come on the show, send me an email. I would love to have you. Until next time, I'm Beth Kendall and you've been listening to the MIND. BODY. SLEEP. Podcast. Bye for now.